Search
Latest Interviews
Laurence Moroney - Rich grabs Laurence Moroney in the corridor at Mix and they talk about Area 51, Playboy and a little bit about Mix09. Taken from Podcast #70
Mike Swanson - Richard caught up with PDC and MIX 'owner' Mike Swanson, and talked about the Mix09 Keynotes, and plans for the next PDC. Taken from Podcast #70
Skip Navigation Links
Login / Register
Interview Quote
"Categorically, anybody that's doing today 'File, New, OK' should be using WCF"
Juval Lowy
 Member Quotes
 Latest Interviews
Laurence Moroney on Area 51, Playboy and Mix
Rich grabs Laurence Moroney in the corridor at Mix and they talk about Area 51, Playboy and a little bit about Mix09. Taken from Podcast #70
Mike Swanson on PDC and Mix
Richard caught up with PDC and MIX 'owner' Mike Swanson, and talked about the Mix09 Keynotes, and plans for the next PDC. Taken from Podcast #70
The MVP Program
Rich and Dave catch up with Toby Richards the new World Wide MVP lead. They chat about Toby's ideas for the MVP program for the next few years, about Daylight Saving time and about the upcoming MVP Summit in Seattle in March 2009
Daniel Moth on his Blog
Daniel Moth give us an indepth interview on all things including his blog
Rafal on TechEd and Data Mining
TechEd draws to a close and Dave and Rich meet Rafal Lukawiecki, top TechEd speaker again, to talk about Data Mining - but with a big difference...
Interviews...
Conferences Conferences
Mix10
Mix10
Partner Showcase Partner Showcase
Charteris plc is an AIM-listed business and IT consultancy delivering a range of specialised capabilities and solutions that enable organisations to transform business performance through the strategic application of technology.
Charteris plc is an AIM-listed business and IT consultancy delivering a range of specialised capabilities and solutions that enable organisations to transform business performance through the strategic application of technology.
Powered by ASP.NET 2.0
NxtGenUG Interview
Juval Lowy Thursday, August 16, 2007
Dave meet's up with Software Legend Juval Löwy and talks about WCF, spinning balls, books and flying model planes ...
The Interview 
NxtGenUG FAQSo this is Dave here and we're down in Lakeside House, I believe down in Sunny Uxbridge. I'm here with Juval Löwy, from iDesign all away from across the States. Juval would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do?
So my name is Juval Löwy, I'm the principle of iDesign, we specialise in .NET Architecture Consulting, True Architecture and Actual World, meaning designing systems. We do a fair amount of advanced training which is what I'm doing here this week. I'm also the Microsoft Regional Director for the Silicon Valley. I've published a few .NET books, latest one "Programming WCF Services", I speak at development conferences, I chair 2 large developer conferences, I publish a lot of articles, I write the WCF column for MSDN Magazine Been participating in the internal design reviews at Microsoft for future version of .NET. I've been privileged to be part of the strategic design effort of WCF for the last 4 years. So ...
NxtGenUG FAQSo what else do you do? [Laughs]
[Laughs]
NxtGenUG FAQIs that all? Is that all you do, goodness gracious me [Laughs]. OK, so you're over here teaching a course, can you tell us a little bit the background behind that course and what your aims of the course were?
So the class is called the WCF Master Class, and what I'm showing in that class is not just how to be a WCF expert, but how to design modern software systems. And ... I'm almost using WCF as a reference model because I'm showing all the design issues behind a particular thing and I'm showing how to solve it in various ways and from various angles using WCF. I'm showing a lot of my original techniques and helper classes that address various things. And ... I try to convey the message that WCF is fundamentally the next generation developer platform. It's more than just a new API or anything, it's literally a new way of programming. In many respects it deprecates .NET as people know it now...
NxtGenUG FAQThat's a pretty big statement
It is a big statement, and it definitely goes against the ... common statement that Microsoft will make on what is WCF, right?
NxtGenUG FAQAlso I believe that the general statement is that the next developer platform is SharePoint so how do you reconcile those two points of view?
Well I mean, there's always a need for something like SharePoint and for something like WCF. Sharepoint is definitely for quick cut of application, sharepoint site and so on, and you can certainly extend SharePoint. WCF is how you write systems right? Which is a totally different perspective on just bringing up a form with a few checkboxes on it right?
NxtGenUG FAQSo what brings you to say its the next developer platform, what particular aspects of WCF allow you to make that statement?
Right, so what's unique about WCF is that it takes care of much of the things a developer used to handcraft, predominantly plumbing. Most application developers spend a totally disproportionate amount of the effort on things like hosting, instance management, security, transaction, reliablilty. WCF comes along and it just takes care of all of that, and basically lets you focus on the business logic, on things that your customer and your manager cares about. And by doing so there is a huge productivity boost and also a quality boost. You don't spend time on the bugs, but more time on the features right? And that's a shift from the way you used to develop an application before. Now its definitely not a 'Silver Bullet', you still have to spend some time understanding what is going on, the relationship between various things how to extend it, but compared to normal development, I say its like using power tools for a carpenter. You can use a screwdriver with a noraml screw and you could just turn, turn, turn. If you use a powertool its like VRRRU! and you're done right? Its an order of magnitude faster, right? And that's really why its so compelling...
NxtGenUG FAQRight, OK. So as far as your company iDesign, I mean, you say you're doing some real world solutions. Have you actually deployed WCF in real-world solutions as far as your company is concerned? And can you give an example of how it helped this productivity side of things?
So, I would say that categorically over the last ... certainly over the last year and a half probably over the last two years, every customer we engaged in, we engaged using WCF. And before that even if it wasn't WCF, we made a forward looking solution that would be migrateable easily to WCF. Categorically, anybody that's doing today "File, New, OK" should be using WCF. There's no if's, no but's, there's nothing in between [Smiles]. Obviously if you're still maintaining your legacy code base, then you can't take advantage of WCF or maybe everything WCF has to offer. There's certainly some migration strategy, some way of exporting endpoints to cater for the more basic applications ... but moving forward is there is really no excuse to use raw .NET. .NET not just WCF but all X.0 is a huge step forward as far as capabilities right? Its a bit hard to relate to something as abstract as WCF and if you talk about legacy windows application compared to a slick rotating, 2 dimensional, rotating icons in the air WPF application its obvious there's more things going on there ...
NxtGenUG FAQYeah, the Microsoft guys always hated demonstrating WCF, because there's nothing to demonstrate! [Laughs]
Exactly! [Laughs] How can you demonstrate plumbing right? IN fact I helped a rumour once that .. er .. in the old COM+ days, where they had the COM+ explorer, with the 'spinning balls' and so on?
NxtGenUG FAQOh Yes ...
That's adds no business value whatsoever in spinning balls right, but they had to put it in ...[Laughs]
NxtGenUG FAQBecause its something to see [Smiles]
Exactly! THey had to convey to managers what they were doing, and show that something is going on, when you launch a COM+ host and you launch the services ... so there's no spinning balls in ...
NxtGenUG FAQI was about to say is there a spinning balls equivalent for WCF?
So I asked the very same question a few years ago, and the WCF architect told me back that no, but using WPF I could have these spinning balls, spinning with a mirror image of each other. And I told him that's probably the first real Use Case to find value with WPF! [Laughs]
NxtGenUG FAQThat's fantastic. So you're talking here, you're doing this course here and we were chatting briefly beforehand that you're off to Sweden fairly shortly, what are you doing out there?
So, I'm going to help a customer of ours with ... technical issues they have with some WCF usage , I can't really go into details now, its a big financial company and they need expert advice on how to do something. So its a lucky strike for them, as I was already her in the UK, they said "Can you spend another week with us?" and I obliged so that's why I'm going next week.
NxtGenUG FAQGreat, great ... so as far as WCF is concerned, and this is a loaded question here, can you recommend a good book on WCF [Smiles]
Why of course [Laughs]. There is my book, "Programming WCF Services" which is er .. OK the WCF team is using it OK?
NxtGenUG FAQ[Dave] OK, That's a good recommendation!
You can take a look at the comments and reviews for it on Amazon. Its ... a different book from the average technical book. The average technical book or a common one, talks about how the technology is implemented perhaps or some shallow cursory look at maybe some piffle and such. My book is a tour de force, I'm not holding back any blows. If something sucks I say it sucks, this is how you fix it. I'm not taking anything lying down. I extend WCF to compensate perhaps for some oversight, I emphasise things they did well and show how not to do things that are perhaps possible with the product. I mean there's no WCF policy, there are still bad things that you can do, that the product lets you do, so I showing how not to do these things. I am definitely at the intermediate to advanced developer not necessarily in WCF knowledge but more in professional skills and overall attitude to how to design systems, in experience, in being a veteran right? I would say if you are junior to intermediate developer, you should probably take a look at Michelle's book, its called "Learning WCF". It looks very much like my book, most of our books have got the fish on the cover [Laughs]. She aims more at the introductory level, she doesn't go into every rathole like I go. I would say that ... start to finish you probably need both books right? You need her to shoehorn yourself into the whole mindset of Service Orientation ... and then you need my book to really pick it up. In some respects I almost assume you know WCF before you pick up my book. So I have a lip service which is chapter one which is like "What is WCF?" but that was to appease by editor [Laughs]
NxtGenUG FAQWith Windows 2008 Server coming out and we have this facility Windows Application Services. Are you aware of that? Is there any relation between that and WCF. Does it use that?
It can use it I don't think its related.
NxtGenUG FAQSo $55,000 question then. What's your favourite feature of WCF?
........ Wow. What's my favourite feature?
NxtGenUG FAQDon't say ABC [Laughs]
No because its not by the way ... ok.. so lets maybe lets have separate a favourite feature versus a favourite capability right?
NxtGenUG FAQThat's fair enough ...
Separate feature is synchronization contexts ...
NxtGenUG FAQThat's fair enough ...
Separate feature is synchronization contexts ...
NxtGenUG FAQIs the?
Synchronization Contexts. In the next edition of MSDN Magazine in my column I'm going to have an article on what it means and show how to extend WCF to have custom synchronisation contexts and so on. But as far as capability I would say it's that finally we're disconnected from the object, from direct references to objects that there is this interception between the client and the server which adds all this value where we never see the object, we're decoupled from its version, from its assembly from its language, from its platform all these things you don't want to be coupled to and you can focus on the abstract, contractual relationship between the service and the service provider this is probably the most compelling one from a capability standpoint.
NxtGenUG FAQFantastic. OK so just rounding it off on a lighter note. My compatriot Richie Costall who's not here asked me to ask you do you play any XBOX games?
I'm embarassed to say that not only do I not have XBOX I have never played ANY computer games probably in my life. I could never find it interesting. I mean I left computer games at Digger and Pong and that's probably also dated myself. [Laughs] You're laughing, you know what I mean ... and space invaders of course, don't forget space invaders, but those were almost television games they weren't computer games right? As soon as I could put my paws on a computer when I was much younger I did modern algebra, and matrixes and such ... I did the Math stuff .. I didn't find time. The first software I ever wrote was a linear algebra matrix manipulation thing because I didn't want to do it by hand, so its like that was the things that compelled in computers early on. However I do have a vice, and that is the software Simulator called Real Flight which lets you control a model aeroplane or a model helicopter ... and the graphics and the quality of the product is just absolutely unbelieveable. You can get addicted to that ... I'm doing amazing things on aerobatics and so on and you can jump to the cockpit and do it from inside the cockpit.
NxtGenUG FAQCan you actually fly a real aircraft?
Oh I could long ago, I can't do it any more. I would probably not trust myself doing it with a real aeroplane [Laughs]
NxtGenUG FAQJuval Löwy, thanks very much for spending some time with us. Thanks very much.
My pleasure.
About Juval
Juval Lowy is a software architect and the principal of IDesign, www.idesign.net, specializing in .NET 3.0 architecture consulting and advanced .NET 3.0 training.
Juval is Microsoft's Regional Director for the Silicon Valley, working with Microsoft on helping the industry adopt .NET 3.0.
His latest book is Programming WCF Services, O'Reilly 2007.
Juval participates in the Microsoft internal design reviews for future versions of .NET and related technologies. Juval published numerous articles, regarding almost every aspect of .NET development, and is a frequent presenter at development conferences. Microsoft recognized Juval as a Software Legend as one of the world's top .NET experts and industry leaders.
Copyright © 2006-2009 NxtGenUG - Powered by ASP.NET 3.5